From: "Marcos Ruelas" To: "Stephen Brooks" Subject: Re: Magnet quote Date: 2015 August 31; Monday 19:59 Hi Stephen, The 8/5 email is as far as I’m comfortable breaking down the costs. Individual estimates are made with varying confidence but balance out within their categories. Looking at the numbers in any more detail is academic at best and misleading at worst. One thing that I can say is that the non-recurring engineering, set-up, tooling, etc are about 8%-10% of the cost. Another thing I can say is that some of the PM machining costs may be transferred to material costs, depending on how the magnets are specified. In particular, stricter dimensional control will simplify the machining. Best Regards Marcos Ruelas RadiaBeam Technologies Tel: +1-310-822-5845 x117 www.radiabeam.com > On 31-Aug-2015, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Brooks wrote: > > Did you have anything else on the cost breakdown other than your letter, or is it just the percentages you said in your e-mail below? > > -Stephen > > -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas > Sent: 2015 August 06; Thursday 18:06 > To: Stephen Brooks > Subject: Re: Magnet quote > > > Hi Stephen, > > I apologize for not explaining further > I was referring to the custom pickup coil for the rotating coil measurement. We would make a pickup coil specifically matched to your magnets. These are somewhat expensive as they have to be of equal or higher quality then your eventual magnet. > > Best Regards, > > Marcos Ruelas > RadiaBeam Technologies > Mobile: +1.408.753.5681 > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Stephen Brooks > Date: 08/06/2015 5:25 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: Marcos Ruelas > Subject: Re: Magnet quote > > When you talk about "custom coils" do you mean you included the EM corrector > windings in this design too?? > > -Stephen > > > -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas > Sent: 2015 August 05; Wednesday 14:47 > To: Stephen Brooks > Cc: Dejan Trbojevic > Subject: Re: Magnet quote > > Hi Stephen, > > The keeper fabrication, which includes inspection, machining, material, etc > is about 31% > The strongback machining, material, plating, stress relieving, etc is about > 40% (the solid piece of Stainless is expensive) > Testing and actual assembly is about 15%, including the custom coils > Packaging, handling, crates additional tooling to contend with the large > forces, etc is about 5% > The rest is tooling design, management, reporting, etc. > > I think our strongback machining estimates are high, but it is difficult to > estimate such large pieces without first having the design to get the exact > material and mating estimate. > > My flight is taking off now - I’ll answer questions tonight. > > > Cheers, > > Marcos Ruelas > RadiaBeam Technologies > +1.310.822.5845x117 > skype: marcos.ruelas > >> On 5-Aug-2015, at 12:28 PM, Stephen Brooks wrote: >> >> Why does it say "two hundred permanent magnets" in the letter? I think I >> e-mailed you exact quantities, see below: >> >>> >>>> For the full job, we will need 296 magnets, 148 each of two >>> >>>> different >>> >>>> types. >> >> Can you clarify what was costed? >> >> -Stephen >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Brooks >> Sent: 2015 August 05; Wednesday 14:18 >> To: Marcos Ruelas >> Cc: Dejan Trbojevic >> Subject: Re: Magnet quote >> >> Thanks, this has the overall number on it ($1.45M for assembly excl. PM >> material), which looks good. Is there a breakdown into line items or is >> it >> just this page? >> >> -Stephen >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas >> Sent: 2015 August 05; Wednesday 14:12 >> To: Brooks, Stephen >> Cc: Trbojevic, Dejan >> Subject: Re: Magnet quote >> >> >> >> Hi Stephen, >> >> Please see the attached letter explaining the estimate. >> I do have to get on a plane to DC in 30 minutes but I can talk tomorrow if >> you have any questions. >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Marcos Ruelas >> RadiaBeam Technologies >> +1.310.822.5845x117 >> skype: marcos.ruelas >> >> >> >>> On 5-Aug-2015, at 6:34 AM, Marcos Ruelas wrote: >>> >>> Hi Stephen, >>> >>> I had to take some unplanned days off but you have my word that I'll send >>> the estimate no later than tonight. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marcos Ruelas >>> RadiaBeam Technologies >>> Mobile: +1.408.753.5681 >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: Stephen Brooks >>> Date: 08/04/2015 7:55 AM (GMT-08:00) >>> To: Marcos Ruelas >>> Cc: Dejan Trbojevic >>> Subject: Re: Magnet quote >>> >>> Is this still progressing? I haven't heard anything from you yet. >>> >>> -Stephen >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas >>> Sent: 2015 July 30; Thursday 19:09 >>> To: Stephen Brooks >>> Subject: Re: Magnet quote >>> >>> Hi Stephen, >>> >>> We are still putting our numbers together and will have the estimate >>> ready >>> by Monday. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marcos Ruelas >>> RadiaBeam Technologies >>> +1.310.822.5845x117 >>> skype: marcos.ruelas >>> >>> > On 30-Jul-2015, at 8:55 AM, Stephen Brooks wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi Marcos, how is this estimate progressing? >>> > >>> > -Stephen >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas >>> > Sent: 2015 July 24; Friday 15:45 >>> > To: Stephen Brooks >>> > Cc: Finn O'Shea >>> > Subject: Re: Magnet quote >>> > >>> > Hi Stephen, >>> > >>> > Splittable PMQs are not as straightforward as EM quads. The magnetic > >>> > force >>> > makes re-assembly a challenge. We’ll think it over on our end and see > >>> > what >>> > we come up with. >>> > >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > >>> > Marcos Ruelas >>> > RadiaBeam Technologies >>> > +1.310.822.5845x117 >>> > skype: marcos.ruelas >>> > >>> >> On 24-Jul-2015, at 12:39 PM, Stephen Brooks wrote: >>> >> >>> >> We might be able to make it the chamber a pure circular arc, so this >>> >> is >>> >> worth considering. Although there also need to be welded protrusions >>> >> >> on >>> >> it for pumps etc. This means either the magnets have to be split top >>> >> >> and >>> >> bottom for the chamber to be inserted, with subsequent alignment of >>> >> the >>> >> magnets' top and bottom halves being critical. Or they insert a bare >>> >> chamber and do welding afterwards, but then there's limited space >> >>> >> between >>> >> the magnets and it might not be possible to get welding tools in. >>> >> >>> >> At the moment, the engineers at Cornell prefer the magnets to be >>> >> splittable into top and bottom halves. We may have to go this way. >>> >> I'm >>> >> not sure how that impacts your design but I guess you have to make the >>> >> magnet holders splittable and with pins located to ensure accurate >>> >> reassembly. One technique I've seen is drilling the holes for the >>> >> pins >>> >> while the magnet is being measured, so the magnet is reassembled the >>> >> >> same >>> >> way. >>> >> >>> >> -Stephen >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas >>> >> Sent: 2015 July 24; Friday 15:31 >>> >> To: Stephen Brooks >>> >> Subject: Re: Magnet quote >>> >> >>> >> Thanks for the clarification. >>> >> >>> >> I’m not too sure how to best insert the chamber. It could conceivably >>> >> >> be >>> >> slid through if it is a continuous arc rather than a collection of >>> >> straights and bends. >>> >> I think the ideal time to install the chamber is when quads are >> >>> >> assembled >>> >> on to the girder. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> >>> >> Marcos Ruelas >>> >> RadiaBeam Technologies >>> >> +1.310.822.5845x117 >>> >> skype: marcos.ruelas >>> >> >>> >>> On 24-Jul-2015, at 11:29 AM, Stephen Brooks wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> By the way, what are your thoughts on how to best insert the vacuum >>> >>> chamber through the middle of this? >>> >>> >>> >>> -Stephen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas >>> >>> Sent: 2015 July 24; Friday 14:19 >>> >>> To: Stephen Brooks >>> >>> Subject: Re: Magnet quote >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Stephen, >>> >>> >>> >>> I just want to be sure on what you want inlcuded in the estimate. >>> >>> >>> >>> Please confirm that the BDs are included. Are the BDs simple dipoles >>> >>> >>> or >>> >>> are they gradient dipoles? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcos Ruelas >>> >>> RadiaBeam Technologies >>> >>> +1.310.822.5845x117 >>> >>> skype: marcos.ruelas >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 24-Jul-2015, at 10:48 AM, Stephen Brooks wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Marcos Ruelas >>> >>>> Sent: 2015 July 24; Friday 13:47 >>> >>>> To: sbrooks@bnl.gov >>> >>>> Subject: Fwd: Magnet quote >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Hi Stephen, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> It’s good to hear from you after briefly discussing these with you >>> >>>> >>>> and >>> >>>> Bruce at the ERL conference. Like Finn says, the first question is >>> >>>> if >>> >>>> you have any drawings for what you will need. At 300 magnets, little >>> >>>> things can add up quickly and we want to be sure we give you a fair >>> >>>> price. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> One thing to note is that we normally don’t quote solely for >>>> >>> >>>> assembly - >>> >>>> we have only provided complete assemblies. I suspect it is because >>> >>>> >>>> you >>> >>>> want to compare costs, but I will quote for the assembly with the >>> >>>> >>>> cost >>> >>>> of the magnets. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Finally, what kind of testing would you like us to do? We can do >>> >>>> full >>> >>>> mapping, simple gradient checks, or lot testing with consistency >>> >>>> checks…lots of options here. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Best, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Marcos Ruelas >>> >>>> RadiaBeam Technologies >>> >>>> +1.310.822.5845x117 >>> >>>> skype: marcos.ruelas >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> From: "Finn O'Shea" >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Subject: Fwd: Magnet quote >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Date: July 24, 2015 at 9:50:47 AM PDT >>> >>>> >>> >>>> To: Marcos Ruelas , Salime Boucher >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Hi Stephen, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Thanks for the email. Marcos is the head of sales here and he can >>> >>>> >>>> set >>> >>>> you up with an estimate. The first question he is going to ask you >>> >>>> >>>> is >>> >>>> if you have drawings for the components (girder, PM keepers, so on) >>> >>>> >>>> or >>> >>>> do you want us to engineer those? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Finn >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> >>>> From: Stephen Brooks >>> >>>> Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:46 AM >>> >>>> Subject: Magnet quote >>> >>>> To: Finn O'Shea >>> >>>> Cc: Stephen Brooks , Dejan Trbojevic >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Hi Finn, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> We have a prototype FFAG project at Cornell university that we're >>> >>>> trying to get magnet assembly costs for. I'm not sure who to >>> >>>> contact >>> >>>> to get Radiabeam's estimate. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> The magnets will be permanent magnets, we can already estimate the >>> >>>> >>>> cost >>> >>>> of the actual NdFeB pieces direct from the manufacturer, but we need >>> >>>> >>>> an >>> >>>> estimate for the cost of assembly of each magnet and adding >>>> >>> >>>> attachments >>> >>>> to a girder. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> For the full job, we will need 296 magnets, 148 each of two >>> >>>> different >>> >>>> types. Their lengths are 8cm and 11cm. One design is a Halbach >>> >>>> assembled from 16 pieces with outer radius (of the pieces) of 8cm; >>> >>>> >>>> the >>> >>>> inner radius is 2-3cm. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> So in those quantities, sizes and with those numbers pieces to be >>> >>>> assembled, can you give us a rough estimate for all assembly >>> >>>> required >>> >>>> except the PM pieces themselves? So you'd deliver us a magnet >>> >>>> either >>> >>>> with attachments to a girder or optionally including the girder >>>> >>> >>>> (cells >>> >>>> are short: 33cm per 2-magnet cell, so you could fit 4 cells/8 >>> >>>> magnets >>> >>>> on a reasonable girder). >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -Stephen >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>>> >>> >>>> Finn O'Shea >>> >>>> Research Scientist >>> >>>> Radiabeam Technologies, LLC >>> >>>> 1717 Stewart St. >>> >>>> Santa Monica, CA 90404 >>> >>>> USA >>> >>>> Ph: +1 310.822.5845 x130 >>> >>>> F: +1 310.582.1212 >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >